Liberty Maven

The amendment I discussed yesterday,  S.845, which would allow concealed carry permit holders to legally carry into other states as long as that state’s laws were followed failed today. The vote was 58 for the amendment and 39 against. 60 votes were required for acceptance.

I can’t help but wonder if Norm Coleman had defeated Al Franken and if Arlen Specter didn’t switch parties the required 60 would have been reached. Both Franken and Specter were among the 39 who voted ‘No’.

After some thought I realized there is a valid argument that this amendment could violate states rights. The argument is based on a bit of a “catch-22″ built-in to the amendment. In short, the amendment would allow concealed carry permit holders to “violate” the state laws that apply to obtaining a permit. For instance in some states the law is such that in order to get a permit one has to pass a live firing test. The amendment would nullify that rule for someone who enters the state from a state that does not have such a requirement.

That being said, there’s something to be said for thinking of it like one thinks of a driver’s license. The laws governing obtaining a driver’s license differ in each state, yet we don’t seem to have a problem allowing reciprocity for cars crossing state lines as long as the rules of the state are obeyed.

And what about the 2nd Amendment? The entire debate should be rendered moot if we actually followed the 2nd amendment. Isn’t it true that humans have a natural right to defend him/her self from harm? After all the Bill of Rights does not grant us rights, it merely affirms our natural human rights. We had the right to defend ourselves from harm pre-Constitution.

Below I’m including the remarks from Virginia Senator Jim Webb delivered yesterday during the debate on this amendment. He was one of several Democrats who voted for the amendment. As one of his constituents I thank him for doing so. I’d like to be thanking him for also cosponsoring S.604 to fully audit the Federal Reserve, but he hasn’t done that yet. I hope in time he does so.

In the meantime, enjoy his strong and thoughtful arguments on the amendment today.

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Senator Jim Webb’s Floor Remarks on
Thune Amendment, Amdt. 1618 to S. 1390
July 22, 2009

“Mr. President, I rise in support of this amendment. I believe it is reasonable and is not as draconian in its implications as many of my colleagues, whom I greatly respect in terms of their concerns, are anticipating.

“I would also say there has been a lot of misinformation on the Senate floor about this amendment, to the effect that it will allow felons, people who are mentally defective, and other dangerous individuals to carry weapons on the streets of American cities, and also to buy up hordes of guns and to transport them into places, as Senator Schumer mentioned, like New York City.

“My colleague from New York gave as an example, in his terms, a Crip or a Blood moving to Vermont, establishing residency, then bringing a permit down into New York and being able to carry a weapon with impunity. I think the reality of that particular situation is that the gang members already have their guns. They don’t need this bill. In fact, this amendment has protections that would prevent those who engage in criminal activity such as gang members from taking advantage of this legislation. And the people who need this bill are the ones the gang members might be threatening.

“With respect to standards of conduct, aspects of criminality, and issues of mental health, it’s important to note that there is a federal floor underneath this amendment that guarantees that certain standards will be met, regardless of varying state standards.

“If you read the amendment, it states that “a person who is not prohibited from Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who meets other conditions then may be granted reciprocity

“If you go into federal law, and I am going to read from 27 CFR Section 478, this is the current standard in terms of being able to possess a firearm or ammunition.

“Anyone who:

· Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year may not possess a firearm;

· Is a fugitive from justice;

· Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;

· Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution;

· Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa;

· Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;

· Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship;

· Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner;

. or anyone who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence cannot lawfully receive, possess, ship, or transport a firearm. In addition, a person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year cannot lawfully receive a firearm.”

“Those, Mr. President, are the federal guarantees, the floor under which this reciprocity legislation operates.

“Senator Lautenberg has said in his comments that passing this legislation is akin to allowing someone from another state to come into your state and follow their own speed limits. This is not true. The amendment specifically provides that anyone carrying a firearm into another state must follow the laws regarding firearm usage in that state.

“I quote from the amendment:

“In a state that allows residents of the State to obtain licences or permits to carry concealed firearms, be entitled to carry such a firearm subject to thesame laws and conditions that govern specific places and manner in which a firearm may be carried by a person issues a permit by the State in which the firearm is carried.”

“I would say, Mr. President, that the better analogy at work here is the driver’s licensing process itself. States decide the conditions under which a license can be granted, but the nature of interstate travel allows licenses issued in another state to be recognized across the country, so long as the holders of those licenses obey the laws of the state in which they are driving.

“I also keep hearing that this amendment will increase the number of purchases of hand guns and other weapons. I’d like to clarify for this body as someone who holds a concealed carry permit. A permit to carry does not automatically allow anyone to purchase a firearm automatically. One still has to go through the entire background check as if you did not have a permit. Illegal firearms sales are a separate matter for this body to address, one that we clearly should be focusing on, but they fall outside the parameters of this amendment.

“Mr. President, the issue of gun usage in America understandably divides people, usually along the lines of those who believe any relaxation of gun laws will benefit criminal and violent activity, versus those who believe that gun laws need to be modified in order to allow law-abiding people to defend themselves. I have a great deal of empathy for those who have been the victims of gun violence, and I have worked with citizens groups as well as our governor in the aftermath of the Virginia Tech shootings to focus our approach.

“We have made significant improvements in our laws since then, including working to modify privacy laws as they relate to mental health matters, which was the primary concern in the Virginia Tech shooting and also to improve the instant background checks. I will continue to work in these areas.

“I also believe very strongly that the violence we see on our streets and in our neighborhoods must be addressed. But very little of that violence has ever been caused by those who seek permits to carry. As I mentioned before, the people who are perpetrating that kind of violence already have their guns. Their access to those guns is a matter we all should focus on. But few criminals are going to go down to the county courthouse and file for a permit. Those who seek permits to carry and who are within the federal guidelines specifically addressed in this bill seek to do so in order to protect themselves from the violence we see on our streets. I would say, when I look at this amendment, a couple of clear examples come to mind.

“One is my father, who in his later years lived in Florida and then Arkansas and would drive alone in his car to visit me and my brother who lived in Minnesota. It was usually at least a two day journey. My father was older, he was by himself in his car. He was a classic target of potential criminal activity. He carried a weapon, a firearm, when he traveled. When he stopped at night, went into a motel, he brought that weapon with him. You check into a motel, you’re 77 years old, you’re by yourself, people are going to start looking at you. I don’t think that people who are in that situation need to wonder if they’re committing a felony by having to defend themselves when they’re in that situation.

“Something else that comes to mind are all of these truck drivers that we see on the roads any time we are on the interstate. These are independent contractors, they are making a living the hard way. They constantly cross state boundaries. They have to worry about whether their truck is going to break down, they have to wonder sometimes where they stop, whether they might be victimized if they sleep in the cabin of their truck. They can legally carry, many of them, in their own state. Do they have to worry if they cross into another state boundary and pull over for the night that if they’re trying to defend themselves, they’re committing a felony? This is the type of situation that I believe this legislation is attempting to address.

“I believe it will have a beneficial effect, I believe strongly that we need to work together in this body to address other situations of gun violence in this country. I am glad to add whatever insights I can have to this body in order to do so.

“I support this legislation and intend to vote for it. I yield the floor.”

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(Thanks to Kimberly Hunter, Webb’s Press Secretary, for providing his remarks.)