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	<title>Comments on: Is there any doubt that public schools have failed?</title>
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	<link>http://libertymaven.com/2009/07/01/is-there-any-doubt-that-public-schools-have-failed/6331/</link>
	<description>For Liberty, One Individual At A Time</description>
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		<title>By: School Choice: More Proof Government Run Education is a Disaster &#124; The Patriot's Mind</title>
		<link>http://libertymaven.com/2009/07/01/is-there-any-doubt-that-public-schools-have-failed/6331/comment-page-1/#comment-3493</link>
		<dc:creator>School Choice: More Proof Government Run Education is a Disaster &#124; The Patriot's Mind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertymaven.com/?p=6331#comment-3493</guid>
		<description>[...] History, Math, Science, English, etc. If you don&#8217;t believe me, a recent article from the libertymaven.com reports a survey taken by the Goldwater Institute of over 1,100 public high school students in Arizona on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] History, Math, Science, English, etc. If you don&#8217;t believe me, a recent article from the libertymaven.com reports a survey taken by the Goldwater Institute of over 1,100 public high school students in Arizona on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: temp337</title>
		<link>http://libertymaven.com/2009/07/01/is-there-any-doubt-that-public-schools-have-failed/6331/comment-page-1/#comment-3491</link>
		<dc:creator>temp337</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertymaven.com/?p=6331#comment-3491</guid>
		<description>A couple of comments:

While it&#039;s true that it would be nice if the showing were stronger, the title also implies that it is specifically the fact that schools are public that is problematic.  If one looks at the numbers in the PDF for private/magnet schools, one notices that no students there scored better than 7 either, and the percentage that made 7 was roughly comparable.

Also, I&#039;m not terribly impressed by some of the questions.

(1) What is the supreme law of the land?

I&#039;d be more interested in a student being able to describe the role that the Constitution has relative to federal legislation than to have memorized the factoid (which I think showed up on some multiple-choice test when *I* was in high school) that it is &quot;the supreme law of the land&quot;.

(2) What do we call the first ten amendments to the Constitution?

I wish that people knew this, but for most students, this is a trivia fact.  Ignorance of their collective name does not imply that one cannot appreciate their importance or utilize them.

(3) What are the two parts of the U.S. Congress?

I agree that students should know this.  Good question.

(4) How many Justices are on the Supreme Court?

Nice to know, but has changed over the years and is far from essential to the citizen&#039;s role in the government.

(5) Who wrote the Declaration of Independence?

Again, this is largely a matter of trivia.  Nice to know (though I only internalized it post-high school myself), but ignorance of this has few implications as to inability to be an effective citizen.

(6) What ocean is on the East Coast of the United States?

Yes, it&#039;s embarrassing that people didn&#039;t get this.

(7) What are the two major political parties in the United States?

Important, I agree.  I&#039;m quite surprised that the numbers were this low.

(8) We elect a U.S. Senator for how many years?

Nice to know, but still not really something that would seriously cripple an individual&#039;s ability to function as a voter.

(9) Who was the first President of the United States?

Again, pretty bad that many couldn&#039;t get this, though it still falls into what I&#039;d consider &quot;trivia&quot;, albeit trivia that I would really expect people in the US to know.

(10) Who is in charge of the executive branch?

This is a good question.

I&#039;d be more interested in seeing that students understood, say, the *rationale* for the various elements of government.  I&#039;ve been somewhat fascinated by the fact that a large number of people that I&#039;ve discussed the matter with, once they understand the concerns that the Founding Fathers had in creating the Second Amendment, become *much* more happy with it than when they see it as simply a senseless chunk of law.  I wonder more than a little whether the First Amendment suffers from similar problems...I think that if people understood the rationale behind posse comitatus, it would also be much more appealing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of comments:</p>
<p>While it&#8217;s true that it would be nice if the showing were stronger, the title also implies that it is specifically the fact that schools are public that is problematic.  If one looks at the numbers in the PDF for private/magnet schools, one notices that no students there scored better than 7 either, and the percentage that made 7 was roughly comparable.</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m not terribly impressed by some of the questions.</p>
<p>(1) What is the supreme law of the land?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be more interested in a student being able to describe the role that the Constitution has relative to federal legislation than to have memorized the factoid (which I think showed up on some multiple-choice test when *I* was in high school) that it is &#8220;the supreme law of the land&#8221;.</p>
<p>(2) What do we call the first ten amendments to the Constitution?</p>
<p>I wish that people knew this, but for most students, this is a trivia fact.  Ignorance of their collective name does not imply that one cannot appreciate their importance or utilize them.</p>
<p>(3) What are the two parts of the U.S. Congress?</p>
<p>I agree that students should know this.  Good question.</p>
<p>(4) How many Justices are on the Supreme Court?</p>
<p>Nice to know, but has changed over the years and is far from essential to the citizen&#8217;s role in the government.</p>
<p>(5) Who wrote the Declaration of Independence?</p>
<p>Again, this is largely a matter of trivia.  Nice to know (though I only internalized it post-high school myself), but ignorance of this has few implications as to inability to be an effective citizen.</p>
<p>(6) What ocean is on the East Coast of the United States?</p>
<p>Yes, it&#8217;s embarrassing that people didn&#8217;t get this.</p>
<p>(7) What are the two major political parties in the United States?</p>
<p>Important, I agree.  I&#8217;m quite surprised that the numbers were this low.</p>
<p>(8) We elect a U.S. Senator for how many years?</p>
<p>Nice to know, but still not really something that would seriously cripple an individual&#8217;s ability to function as a voter.</p>
<p>(9) Who was the first President of the United States?</p>
<p>Again, pretty bad that many couldn&#8217;t get this, though it still falls into what I&#8217;d consider &#8220;trivia&#8221;, albeit trivia that I would really expect people in the US to know.</p>
<p>(10) Who is in charge of the executive branch?</p>
<p>This is a good question.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be more interested in seeing that students understood, say, the *rationale* for the various elements of government.  I&#8217;ve been somewhat fascinated by the fact that a large number of people that I&#8217;ve discussed the matter with, once they understand the concerns that the Founding Fathers had in creating the Second Amendment, become *much* more happy with it than when they see it as simply a senseless chunk of law.  I wonder more than a little whether the First Amendment suffers from similar problems&#8230;I think that if people understood the rationale behind posse comitatus, it would also be much more appealing.</p>
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		<title>By: D Taylor</title>
		<link>http://libertymaven.com/2009/07/01/is-there-any-doubt-that-public-schools-have-failed/6331/comment-page-1/#comment-3468</link>
		<dc:creator>D Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertymaven.com/?p=6331#comment-3468</guid>
		<description>&quot;...How could you not know Washington???...&quot; 
 
It&#039;s not a necessary item in the Government School agenda - its a trivia bonus. Unquestioning loyalty to the &#039;Powers That Be&#039;, and unwavering acceptance of the latest &#039;truth&#039; (even if it changes by the hour) are much more important. Hence, most of the questions are irrelevant to American students.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;&#8230;How could you not know Washington???&#8230;&quot; </p>
<p>It&#039;s not a necessary item in the Government School agenda &#8211; its a trivia bonus. Unquestioning loyalty to the &#039;Powers That Be&#039;, and unwavering acceptance of the latest &#039;truth&#039; (even if it changes by the hour) are much more important. Hence, most of the questions are irrelevant to American students.</p>
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		<title>By: blasphemincapn</title>
		<link>http://libertymaven.com/2009/07/01/is-there-any-doubt-that-public-schools-have-failed/6331/comment-page-1/#comment-3464</link>
		<dc:creator>blasphemincapn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertymaven.com/?p=6331#comment-3464</guid>
		<description>Going out on a limb here - but were these kids all raised in America? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Going out on a limb here &#8211; but were these kids all raised in America?</p>
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		<title>By: Calgary Libertarian</title>
		<link>http://libertymaven.com/2009/07/01/is-there-any-doubt-that-public-schools-have-failed/6331/comment-page-1/#comment-3461</link>
		<dc:creator>Calgary Libertarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 00:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertymaven.com/?p=6331#comment-3461</guid>
		<description>wow, I am a Canadian , and I got them all right. How could you not know Washington???  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, I am a Canadian , and I got them all right. How could you not know Washington???</p>
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		<title>By: happyjuggler0</title>
		<link>http://libertymaven.com/2009/07/01/is-there-any-doubt-that-public-schools-have-failed/6331/comment-page-1/#comment-3460</link>
		<dc:creator>happyjuggler0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertymaven.com/?p=6331#comment-3460</guid>
		<description>Some of the students got what I consider an acceptable answer to number 10. They answered &quot;governor&quot;, which is correct if it is about an individual state. &quot;Mayor&quot; would also have been an acceptable answer to a poorly worded question. 
 
On the other hand, when all the questions (excepting 6 and partially number 7) are about the federal government, the logical answer is of course &quot;president&quot;. 
 
Anyway, I quickly got ten of ten. I am disturbed that almost no one managed to get more than seven correct. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the students got what I consider an acceptable answer to number 10. They answered &quot;governor&quot;, which is correct if it is about an individual state. &quot;Mayor&quot; would also have been an acceptable answer to a poorly worded question. </p>
<p>On the other hand, when all the questions (excepting 6 and partially number 7) are about the federal government, the logical answer is of course &quot;president&quot;. </p>
<p>Anyway, I quickly got ten of ten. I am disturbed that almost no one managed to get more than seven correct.</p>
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		<title>By: D Taylor</title>
		<link>http://libertymaven.com/2009/07/01/is-there-any-doubt-that-public-schools-have-failed/6331/comment-page-1/#comment-3459</link>
		<dc:creator>D Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertymaven.com/?p=6331#comment-3459</guid>
		<description>No! Government schools have NOT failed! They have succeeded beyond all expectation to do EXACTLY what they were set up to do!  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No! Government schools have NOT failed! They have succeeded beyond all expectation to do EXACTLY what they were set up to do!</p>
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