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	<title>Comments on: The Bob Barr, Ron Paul Divide: Hearts and Minds</title>
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	<link>http://libertymaven.com/2008/05/29/the-bob-barr-ron-paul-divide-hearts-and-minds/1116/</link>
	<description>For Liberty, One Individual At A Time</description>
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		<title>By: FormerLPMember</title>
		<link>http://libertymaven.com/2008/05/29/the-bob-barr-ron-paul-divide-hearts-and-minds/1116/comment-page-1/#comment-478</link>
		<dc:creator>FormerLPMember</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 04:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libertymaven.com/2008/05/29/the-bob-barr-ron-paul-divide-hearts-and-minds/1116/#comment-478</guid>
		<description>DON’T VOTE
For those who call themselves Ron Paul Republicans and to those Harry Browne Libertarians, if you are like most Americans who do not agree with the choices for president, Act Responsibly: Don’t Vote!
http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcelroy/mcelroy37.html

WASTED VOTE OR THE LESSER OF MANY EVILS
It was a pipe dream to believe that Dr. Paul could have pushed his platform to the forefront of a brokered GOP convention. At best, the party may have been able to promise to work towards restoring individual rights, balancing the budget and calling on future congresses to declare war in future conflicts. That said, the presumptive nominee John McCain would have just not followed the party line once again as he has proven in the past.


MOST AMERICANS ARE SO DISGUSTED WITH THE CHOICES, THEY STAY AWAY FROM THE POLLS
&quot;Viewing the nation as divided into two camps ignores the largest single group of Americans, namely, those who don&#039;t vote at all. In the 2000 election only about 54 percent of eligible voters actually turned out to vote. In 2004, despite expensive get-out-the-vote campaigns by both ideological camps, the percentage who voted rose only a few points from the previous election. In fact, in 2004, an all-time record was set when more than 80 million eligible voters failed to vote; this number was far greater than the votes secured by either Bush or Kerry, by a substantial margin. In fact, no Republican or Democratic nominee has attracted as much as 30 percent of eligible voters since Ronald Reagan in 1984.&quot;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states#Polarization</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DON’T VOTE<br />
For those who call themselves Ron Paul Republicans and to those Harry Browne Libertarians, if you are like most Americans who do not agree with the choices for president, Act Responsibly: Don’t Vote!<br />
<a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcelroy/mcelroy37.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcelroy/mcelroy37.html</a></p>
<p>WASTED VOTE OR THE LESSER OF MANY EVILS<br />
It was a pipe dream to believe that Dr. Paul could have pushed his platform to the forefront of a brokered GOP convention. At best, the party may have been able to promise to work towards restoring individual rights, balancing the budget and calling on future congresses to declare war in future conflicts. That said, the presumptive nominee John McCain would have just not followed the party line once again as he has proven in the past.</p>
<p>MOST AMERICANS ARE SO DISGUSTED WITH THE CHOICES, THEY STAY AWAY FROM THE POLLS<br />
&#8220;Viewing the nation as divided into two camps ignores the largest single group of Americans, namely, those who don&#8217;t vote at all. In the 2000 election only about 54 percent of eligible voters actually turned out to vote. In 2004, despite expensive get-out-the-vote campaigns by both ideological camps, the percentage who voted rose only a few points from the previous election. In fact, in 2004, an all-time record was set when more than 80 million eligible voters failed to vote; this number was far greater than the votes secured by either Bush or Kerry, by a substantial margin. In fact, no Republican or Democratic nominee has attracted as much as 30 percent of eligible voters since Ronald Reagan in 1984.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states#Polarization" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states#Polarization</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mickey Bennett</title>
		<link>http://libertymaven.com/2008/05/29/the-bob-barr-ron-paul-divide-hearts-and-minds/1116/comment-page-1/#comment-468</link>
		<dc:creator>Mickey Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 06:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libertymaven.com/2008/05/29/the-bob-barr-ron-paul-divide-hearts-and-minds/1116/#comment-468</guid>
		<description>&quot;We&#039;re allies...&quot; --Ron Paul speaking about Bob Barr.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We&#8217;re allies&#8230;&#8221; &#8211;Ron Paul speaking about Bob Barr.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Gallagher</title>
		<link>http://libertymaven.com/2008/05/29/the-bob-barr-ron-paul-divide-hearts-and-minds/1116/comment-page-1/#comment-458</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Gallagher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 04:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libertymaven.com/2008/05/29/the-bob-barr-ron-paul-divide-hearts-and-minds/1116/#comment-458</guid>
		<description>Donna,

First, I have to apologize for the blog not posting your comment immediately. It was picked up by the spam filter (I suppose because you posted it twice in a short period of time, not sure). I only noticed it was sitting in the moderation queue tonight.

When I google searched for &quot;Give Peace A Chance&quot;, a page containing the lyrics came up. At the top it said by &quot;Lennon and McCartney&quot; so that is why I put it there. Thanks for the correction.

For a response to the meat of your post, see the other article where you posted it:
http://www.libertymaven.com/2008/05/30/bob-barr-following-ron-pauls-footsteps-will-appear-on-the-colbert-report-on-642008/1119/#comments

Enjoy,
Marc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donna,</p>
<p>First, I have to apologize for the blog not posting your comment immediately. It was picked up by the spam filter (I suppose because you posted it twice in a short period of time, not sure). I only noticed it was sitting in the moderation queue tonight.</p>
<p>When I google searched for &#8220;Give Peace A Chance&#8221;, a page containing the lyrics came up. At the top it said by &#8220;Lennon and McCartney&#8221; so that is why I put it there. Thanks for the correction.</p>
<p>For a response to the meat of your post, see the other article where you posted it:<br />
<a href="http://www.libertymaven.com/2008/05/30/bob-barr-following-ron-pauls-footsteps-will-appear-on-the-colbert-report-on-642008/1119/#comments" rel="nofollow">http://www.libertymaven.com/2008/05/30/bob-barr-following-ron-pauls-footsteps-will-appear-on-the-colbert-report-on-642008/1119/#comments</a></p>
<p>Enjoy,<br />
Marc</p>
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		<title>By: djcoe</title>
		<link>http://libertymaven.com/2008/05/29/the-bob-barr-ron-paul-divide-hearts-and-minds/1116/comment-page-1/#comment-456</link>
		<dc:creator>djcoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 16:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libertymaven.com/2008/05/29/the-bob-barr-ron-paul-divide-hearts-and-minds/1116/#comment-456</guid>
		<description>Marc,

I would be remiss not to convey the difficulty true Libertarians have in believing that Dr. Mary Rwart’s political positions are, as you said, “my positions and the positions I hold to close to my heart.”. 

You better check where you disposed of your bath water.  You may find the “pure” Libertarian political platform, along with your heart, (not sure where your mind resides) is exactly where you threw out the bath water.  I must ask, insist  you stop your naïve,  [however well intentioned] attempts to continually compare Ron Paul and Mary Ruwart with your boys, Bob Barr and his sidekick, Wayne Root the SOB [Son of a Butcher]. 

To support my hypothesis, I will reference an article on Red Pills http://www.redpills.org/?p=1162 

In case it’s taking way too much of your time to locate the discarded bath water, here are a few excerpts from above mentioned article: 

•	Once billed as “The Party of Principle” those principles were sold down the river.  On Sunday, May 25, 2008 the principles were abandoned, and the party was last seen gasping for air before expiring.”  Far Right Republican congressman Bob Barr was nominated for president and the loudmouthed, huckster, Wayne Root, an odds maker from Las Vegas, traded with Barr in order to become his running mate. 
•	Realize that neither man is a libertarian, both are conservatives.  Both endorse foreign interventionism.  Root gave $l,000 to the campaign of Joe Lieberman and Barr gave around $100,000 to Republican Right-wing candidates.  Almost all of those candidates were on the far Right of the party and advocates of war.  The people Barr supported, for the most part, were the absolute worst among the Republicans—those least likely to respect libertarian principles.
•	Barr brought in his own people to Denver, people previously not affiliated with the Libertarian Party.  Like him they were conservative Republicans looking for a vehicle to use.  And the LP, with its ballot status in numerous states is a prime target for plundering.  We have to remember that these dogmatic Rightists have one goal in mind and it isn’t the promotion of libertarianism. 
•	They want to defeat John McCain.  While there is little to say in favor of McCain the Far Right doesn’t perceive him as one of their own.  He is not theocratic enough, authoritarian enough, or vicious enough to satisfy them.  They want to take votes from McCain.  And how will they do that?  By arguing that McCain is not a “true conservative’ and that Barr is.  And exactly how will that be sold to the public?  Bar will have to campaign, NOT AS A LIBERTARIAN, (my emphasis) but as a Far Right conservative.

A question is then asked in the article:  “How did this revolting coup take place?”   There are three suggested answers, but the one want to bring to your attention is as follows: 

•	Second, the party members just felt that ‘winning’ recognition was more important than seeing the values of liberty spread.  The party was started by people wanting to us it to push for liberty.  The party was the means to an end.  But these desperate individuals reversed things.  The party was the end in itself.  The goal wasn’t promoting liberty, but holding power.  They thought that losing an election was worse than losing their principles.  Bob Barr took them to the mountain top and showed them the baubles that politics and offer and they were seduced.

•	Many in the party were shocked and horrified at what happened.  These reformed “libertarians” , many of whom were just recently in the Republican party, were taker over.  Long-time party activists were angry and felt that a coup had been purposely staged.  Unity in the party was threatened and some suggested that the vice presidential slot should go to a principled libertarian.

•	[Standing firmly on her Libertarian principles]  Ruwart did not want to share a ticket with a non-libertarian  [Bob Bar] 

Marc, you not only need to apologize for using Lennon’s lyrics [by the way, “Give Peace a Chance” was written by Lennon – though McCartney was originally given credit] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_Peace_a_Chance...

You need to apologize for continuing to try to align your faux libertarian candidates with Ron Paul and Mary Rewart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marc,</p>
<p>I would be remiss not to convey the difficulty true Libertarians have in believing that Dr. Mary Rwart’s political positions are, as you said, “my positions and the positions I hold to close to my heart.”. </p>
<p>You better check where you disposed of your bath water.  You may find the “pure” Libertarian political platform, along with your heart, (not sure where your mind resides) is exactly where you threw out the bath water.  I must ask, insist  you stop your naïve,  [however well intentioned] attempts to continually compare Ron Paul and Mary Ruwart with your boys, Bob Barr and his sidekick, Wayne Root the SOB [Son of a Butcher]. </p>
<p>To support my hypothesis, I will reference an article on Red Pills <a href="http://www.redpills.org/?p=1162" rel="nofollow">http://www.redpills.org/?p=1162</a> </p>
<p>In case it’s taking way too much of your time to locate the discarded bath water, here are a few excerpts from above mentioned article: </p>
<p>•	Once billed as “The Party of Principle” those principles were sold down the river.  On Sunday, May 25, 2008 the principles were abandoned, and the party was last seen gasping for air before expiring.”  Far Right Republican congressman Bob Barr was nominated for president and the loudmouthed, huckster, Wayne Root, an odds maker from Las Vegas, traded with Barr in order to become his running mate.<br />
•	Realize that neither man is a libertarian, both are conservatives.  Both endorse foreign interventionism.  Root gave $l,000 to the campaign of Joe Lieberman and Barr gave around $100,000 to Republican Right-wing candidates.  Almost all of those candidates were on the far Right of the party and advocates of war.  The people Barr supported, for the most part, were the absolute worst among the Republicans—those least likely to respect libertarian principles.<br />
•	Barr brought in his own people to Denver, people previously not affiliated with the Libertarian Party.  Like him they were conservative Republicans looking for a vehicle to use.  And the LP, with its ballot status in numerous states is a prime target for plundering.  We have to remember that these dogmatic Rightists have one goal in mind and it isn’t the promotion of libertarianism.<br />
•	They want to defeat John McCain.  While there is little to say in favor of McCain the Far Right doesn’t perceive him as one of their own.  He is not theocratic enough, authoritarian enough, or vicious enough to satisfy them.  They want to take votes from McCain.  And how will they do that?  By arguing that McCain is not a “true conservative’ and that Barr is.  And exactly how will that be sold to the public?  Bar will have to campaign, NOT AS A LIBERTARIAN, (my emphasis) but as a Far Right conservative.</p>
<p>A question is then asked in the article:  “How did this revolting coup take place?”   There are three suggested answers, but the one want to bring to your attention is as follows: </p>
<p>•	Second, the party members just felt that ‘winning’ recognition was more important than seeing the values of liberty spread.  The party was started by people wanting to us it to push for liberty.  The party was the means to an end.  But these desperate individuals reversed things.  The party was the end in itself.  The goal wasn’t promoting liberty, but holding power.  They thought that losing an election was worse than losing their principles.  Bob Barr took them to the mountain top and showed them the baubles that politics and offer and they were seduced.</p>
<p>•	Many in the party were shocked and horrified at what happened.  These reformed “libertarians” , many of whom were just recently in the Republican party, were taker over.  Long-time party activists were angry and felt that a coup had been purposely staged.  Unity in the party was threatened and some suggested that the vice presidential slot should go to a principled libertarian.</p>
<p>•	[Standing firmly on her Libertarian principles]  Ruwart did not want to share a ticket with a non-libertarian  [Bob Bar] </p>
<p>Marc, you not only need to apologize for using Lennon’s lyrics [by the way, “Give Peace a Chance” was written by Lennon – though McCartney was originally given credit] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_Peace_a_Chance.." rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_Peace_a_Chance..</a>.</p>
<p>You need to apologize for continuing to try to align your faux libertarian candidates with Ron Paul and Mary Rewart.</p>
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		<title>By: wcasino</title>
		<link>http://libertymaven.com/2008/05/29/the-bob-barr-ron-paul-divide-hearts-and-minds/1116/comment-page-1/#comment-453</link>
		<dc:creator>wcasino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 14:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libertymaven.com/2008/05/29/the-bob-barr-ron-paul-divide-hearts-and-minds/1116/#comment-453</guid>
		<description>I was once a Big &quot;L&quot; puritan libertarian. I fought long and hard to try to elect libertarians to local, state, and national positions during my time in Georgia, to no avail. Of the 15 candidates that I worked for over the 10 year activity I had in Ga, exactly ZERO made it - exactly ZERO got close - puritans who do not take on a pragmatic attitude stand a ZERO chance of being chosen to represent the large cross section of views that the US public shares today. This nation is NOT a libertarian one - far from it. For anyone to be chosen to represent the masses, they must demonstrate pragmatic flexibility, not unrealistic uncompromising stubborn idealism. I am not trying to be rude, but this realization motivated me to move from the LP to the Republican Liberty Caucus, a more pragmatic libertarian leaning movement that stands, in my opinion, a much better chance of actually electing some folks into prominent and powerful positions within our government. I remember Bob Barr when I lived in Georgia and i was not impressed with his record, perhaps he has truly had a change in heart. I know that I once did. If not Ron, than who?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was once a Big &#8220;L&#8221; puritan libertarian. I fought long and hard to try to elect libertarians to local, state, and national positions during my time in Georgia, to no avail. Of the 15 candidates that I worked for over the 10 year activity I had in Ga, exactly ZERO made it &#8211; exactly ZERO got close &#8211; puritans who do not take on a pragmatic attitude stand a ZERO chance of being chosen to represent the large cross section of views that the US public shares today. This nation is NOT a libertarian one &#8211; far from it. For anyone to be chosen to represent the masses, they must demonstrate pragmatic flexibility, not unrealistic uncompromising stubborn idealism. I am not trying to be rude, but this realization motivated me to move from the LP to the Republican Liberty Caucus, a more pragmatic libertarian leaning movement that stands, in my opinion, a much better chance of actually electing some folks into prominent and powerful positions within our government. I remember Bob Barr when I lived in Georgia and i was not impressed with his record, perhaps he has truly had a change in heart. I know that I once did. If not Ron, than who?</p>
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		<title>By: Mickey Bennett</title>
		<link>http://libertymaven.com/2008/05/29/the-bob-barr-ron-paul-divide-hearts-and-minds/1116/comment-page-1/#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator>Mickey Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 05:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libertymaven.com/2008/05/29/the-bob-barr-ron-paul-divide-hearts-and-minds/1116/#comment-452</guid>
		<description>Ron Paul mentions Bob Barr in his latest book, “Revolution: A Manifesto”. Barr is one of the very few modern politicians that Paul speaks favorably of, though it was a very brief mention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron Paul mentions Bob Barr in his latest book, “Revolution: A Manifesto”. Barr is one of the very few modern politicians that Paul speaks favorably of, though it was a very brief mention.</p>
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