Now , there is one chance to beat a king, and this country did it once before. When the colonies were subjected to the king’s monopolizing monetary system and thrust the colonists into instant debt, they organized a grassroots effort to protect the local cities and counties from abuse. Halted any collection of taxes and disallowed the use of the king’s money within their cities. Because real power comes from the consent of the governed, as you may have seen in our Declaration of Independence, without the control of local city and county governments, the kings men were powerless to have anything enforced in the colonies, and when the national armies were called into action against the desenting cities, a call to arms of all the citizens was called to defend the cities. The national army, though better equipt and trained, were outnumbered and not as agressive.

So even though I fight to get Ron Paul into the whitehouse, do not underestimate the importance and power of a city. True patriots can have a direct effect and control in a city over a congressional seat any day. Just think of this for a second. If you are the Mayor, who is in control of the local city police, and you deem the seatbelt law to go against personal freedoms of the individual, you don’t require the police to issue tickets regarding that law. In fact, you can encourage the Alderman, who may even be good friends, to pass an ordinance to specificaly disallow such laws to be enforced within the city boundries. If you are a police officer, you have alot of control as well. Who’s going to take you to court cause you refused to give them a seatbelt ticket? We all as Individuals must make an effort together to protect each other from an overzealous government that is potentially thousands of miles away from you, depending upon where you live that is. We are meant to be a FEDERAL CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. Federal means that ultimate power lies in the people and they grant their city government powers, thus giving counties some of that power, and then the State some from the counties and then the states give the national government some powers. None being able to give any more power than what they hold themselves. The Constitution guarentees a system in which both federal and state governments must abide by in order to operate for the people and a republic meaning that all powers in government must be divided up to ensure that all individual’s inherent rights are protected from being taken away by others(whether it be by using force, charisma, or wealth).

So it’s maybe time for you to get to know your neighbor, start a local group to educate others nearby and rally people for your local elections. Protect Individual’s inherent rights to Life, Liberty and Property at all costs. The local police are your friends not your enemies, they are your first line of defense and get the sherriff’s office to get on board. If they won’t run someone who will against them the next election. They may shut us out of a political party, but this party is one little piece of a larger puzzle. BTW learn about jury powers and jury nullification as well. Your local court system needs to be run by the people, not overzealous judges.

Hope I didn’t ruin your conversation….

“conspiracy theorist,” refers to

1. “a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.”

which we will summarize as “an(one) event” conspiracy theory

or

2. “the idea that many important political events or economic and social trends are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public.”

which we can summarize as “MANY events AND trends” – which is much more expansive. What does this mean? Nothing, except that the term can mean almost anything the user wants it to.

After all, many actual conspiracies have existed in the world. By the first definition, belief in any one of them makes you a conspiracy theorist.

Wiki tells us, among many other things, that “For example ‘Conspiracy nut’ and ‘conspiracy theorist’ are used as pejorative terms. Some whose theories or speculations are labeled a ‘conspiracy theory’ reject the term as prejudicial.”

I say that if we are going to use even the very first limited definition of there being “one event” that we think may involve an unknown covert plot, we still should not use terms as “conspiracy theorist,” especially in an attempt to discredit an opponent in a public debate…

UNLESS WE FIRST SPECIFY THE EXACT CONSPIRACY THEY BELIEVE IN, AND WHY THEY ARE WRONG.

I leave another thought to ponder – what if…

a vast number of people and organizations behaved, in concert, over generations, as if they were part of a giant conspiracy to deprive Americans of all their individual rights and make us slave to our own governments, and that such a conspiracy HAS PRODUCED the attendant results that such a conspiracy naturally would,

but,

the majority of those people and organizations never understood that they were acting as part of the conspiracy?

Unfortunately, this is reality.

So….

To Adam Smith’s “Spontaneous Order” I hereby add the “Spontaneous Conspiracy of Statism (copyright Tom deSabla).” It’s the evil conspiracy you don’t even know you’re a part of.

Well said.

It would behoove us all to watch for these type of discussion-eliminating tricks, and beware the claims (and sometimes even the motives) of those who use them.

Another example of such a trick might be when people claim that Ron Paul is an “isolationist.”

The term is usually not defined, and the issue itself rarely debated – as in, what exactly are Paul’s positions; are they the right thing for America, and finally, are they really isolationist? In the end, again, use of the term serves mostly to end any real discussion/exchange of views.

For some of us stubborn ones, no matter how many times you say, “fringe candidate Ron Paul and his conspiracy theorist supporters” or “black candidate Barack Obama and his racist minister”, will continue to believe what we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears.

To quote Axl Rose:

Don’t go away mad, Trollius, just go away. You’re busted.

This is where i leave. You know full well what a conspiracy theory is, and conspiracy theorist falls out of that…

You used many words in your post, but failed to define any of them. Please define each word used, as it is required to clarify your post.

Here I’ll leave it to the reader to determine who’s being evasive.

To the reader, when the election is over and you’re left wondering why your candidate lost, think deSabla. Like too many of Dr. Paul’s supporters, he’s an anchor.

“I didn’t think I was being coy. (1) Alex Jones is well known as a conspiracy theorist, as (2)you allude to in your post.

(3)The rest of your post doesn’t refute anything I said. (4)You defend conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists. That’s fine. (5)I noted That Ron Paul actively courts them. I don’t think anyone can refute that statement.

As to his judgment and character, (6)if he believes what was in those newsletters, he should say so. (7)It’s hard to conceive that he didn’t know what was being printed in his name for years. If he was unaware, that’s just another example of poor judgment.

If you are content with allowing a (8)different standard of proof for 9/11 truthers than the government, that’s your call.
9)The ‘truth’ movement has changed theories so many times, it’s laughable. Dr. Paul’s willingness to associate with this movement, as well as other (10)fringe elements, shows a significant lack of judgment.

(11)I sincerely hope our country can move toward less government, but hopefully under the leadership of someone who shows better judgment in his/her associations…”

***

And then, Publius, you followed up with:

“badunit,

Your debating skills are impressive. If anyone is looking for a reason that (12)the R3VOLUTION is over…think:

A) People like badunit
B) People like Tom deSabla
C) Ron Paul’s (13)associations with A and B

Psst…’(14)The Matrix’ was fiction, and perhaps badunit should consider a few less pills.”

***

Well now, I must admit I might have been wrong about you Pubicus. You are no friend to liberty. In fact, you are an a-hole, first class. However, I still think you are a thoughtful poster, because the poison you spew is difficult for some to detect. I will do the service for those who may come across this board and not realize what you are doing.

Please forgive the length of this, but some things need to be said.

1. At this point, I think that using the term “conspiracy theorist” is losing it’s usefulness absent a definition of the term. Apparently Publius thinks that it is such a powerful slur that its mere utterance is sufficient to tar Alex Jones. I for one am still waiting on “Publius” to reveal some specific thing that Alex Jones has definitely said that can be proven wrong. When he reveals such a thing, I am fully ready to acknowledge it; until then, I am inclined to suspect Publius of trying to muddy the waters here, so to speak.

2. No. I did not allude to Alex Jones as a well-known conspiracy theorist. What I did do, is ask P-dog for a specific charge against Jones, and the discerning reader can easily see that he has offered none. I also said that when government screws things up and then lies about it, it’s usually muckraking investigative types like Jones who tell us about it.

3. I didn’t refute, because one cannot refute facts that are not there. I clarified the fact that the Pubmeister made non-specific claims that mean nothing without a definition of the (pejorative?) terms he used, like “9-11 truther” and “conspiracy theorist” and that asking for more character than Ron Paul has is a phony request – like asking for the moon.

4. I defend conspiracy theories and theorists? Aren’t you getting a little sloppy there Pubsterini? I did no such thing, and in any case, AGAIN, the charge is meaningless without a definition. I did defend Alex Jones, but only to the extent of asking for a specific charge against him.

5. Ron Paul actively courts a type of person? (A type of person, which, of course, “Pubby” has conveniently neglected TO DEFINE.) Perhaps Peeyuublius feels that some people in our society are so “out-of-the-mainstream” that they taint anyone they support or come into contact with. These people, apparently, should have no champions, and should not have input into the political process.

People like me and maybe you.

6. Again, a charge with no specifics. What untruths has Dookius uncovered in these famous Ron Paul newsletters. What is it that Ron Paul should not believe? Let’s go there. C’mon. GIVE US THE SPECIFICS PLEASE.

Oh, that’s right, Poopius doesn’t argue that way.

7. Now here there is finally some objective truth and a hint of a real argument. I too, do not know how he could have not known what was in those letters. But even this is really besides the point, because there is no real racism in those newsletters – which he didn’t write and no-one has ever argued that he did. And, they are pretty darn old too.

As to Paul’s supposedly terrible judgement -I’d like to read some stuff that Phooeyus wrote 15 years ago and see how much sense it makes now. Maybe what Publius is calling poor judgement is just Paul and his surrogates rejecting political correctness (before it became popular) and telling it like it is.

And, not to nitpick, but Gooblius says that the newsletters were “just another example of poor judgment.” “Just another” example? Piled on top of what existing mountain of poor judgements? Could we have an example? Of course not.

8. This is getting a little hysterical YouTubelius – I never said such a thing. Well, I did say that I didn’t expect the truth from the government, and that we were more likely to get it from Alex Jones. So, in a twisted sort of way, the P creature is right – I have A HIGHER STANDARD OF PROOF for private citizens than I do for government. Ha ha ; )

9. So now it’s the “Truth Movement” that’s changing theories? Unlike the government and it’s ever-shifting justifications for war? Unlike Noseblius, who has again failed to give any examples of changing theories, I will list some of my own.

A. WW1; Make the world safe for democracy.

B. WW2; We were attacked – (by a nation we were blockading) resulting in 2400 dead Americans. We then proceeded to lose hundreds of thousands more – all overseas and on foreign soil.

C. Korea; Police action and see A and D

D. Vietnam; Stop Communism.

Iraq. a. Get WMD. b. Get Dictator. c. Enforce U.N. resolutions. d. Secure nation against terrorists. e. Don’t leave without “honor.”

I’m getting a picture of changing justifications here – justifications for killing and dying. That’s much worse than just changing theories, especially when the charge has no support. Maybe one of these years, Booblius will support one of his stupid charges, but I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you.

10. By Bootlius’s implication, the Founders themselves would be “fringe elements.” This just another attempted slur with no definition and no substance. Think about this for a second – criminals are fringe elements, right? But now realize that there are so many laws that every single one of us disobeys SOME law SOMEWHERE – often every single day.

That means, when it’s convenient to do so, we can ALL be labeled as “fringe elements.”

11. I think this person – “Publius” – is a liar. If he really wanted smaller government – he wouldn’t sound anything like he does on this board. People who really want small government don’t deride their allies as “fringe” elements or attack their leaders with such empty rhetoric and vague charges.

12. If the revolution is really over, then perhaps Publicass can explain how Paul’s supporters somehow became a threat to “take over” conventions in Alaska, Missouri, and Texas.

http://www.star-telegram.com/elections/story/552306.html

13. Really? You think so? Google “deSabla” mr. anonymius. You’ll find out the my ancestors founded the Pacific Gas and Electric Co. We built this f-in country beeyatch, so any candidate should be proud to associate him or herself with the name “deSabla.”

Who the f are you, punk? I’ll take badunit at my side over you anyday. We’ll take care of business, don’t you worry. You’re nothing but a poseur, a faker, a phony and a liar. We’re the big boys, dude. We’re coming to take this country back, and you better stay out of the way intellectually, because we can argue rings around you, and in all other ways too.

14. “The Matrix” was fiction hunh?

Yeah, well, so was Orwell’s “1984.”

Game. Set. Match.

****

Please, Dumbiass, don’t come back without defining your charges and using actual facts.

****

(I have used these offensive nicknames throughout because I use my name, and “Publius” is just some anonymous poster with no accountability for his/her statements)

Your debating skills are impressive. If anyone is looking for a reason that the R3VOLUTION is over…think:

A) People like badunit
B) People like Tom deSabla
C) Ron Paul’s associations with A and B

Psst…’The Matrix’ was fiction, and perhaps badunit should consider a few less pills.

‘Circumstantial Coincidences’….now there’s a standard of proof. Then again, I’m not sure what a circumstantial coincidence is, so maybe it’s the perfect standard.

Furthermore, there was absolutely no accountability for the events, combined with the administrations desire to brush everything under the rug, while almost instantly claiming to know who did it.

Now me personally. I thought the towers were demolished from day 1. I just always thought the terrorists planted them. When I seen it happen I thought as such, just as the reporters did. I kept waiting for reports saying how it was done, and instead I was given that the planes did it. I trusted it, moved on and never thought much else about it until I heard about building 7. Since then, I have to say I very much question the official story.

I feel where Alex Jones goes wrong is placing blame. I don’t see any specific evidence that links people like GWB, but again there is little doubt that the neo-cons have benefited from the attacks more than anyone. That is where the connection comes in.

And the fact that they won’t release video, and cleared up the crime scene with obvious lies doesn’t help the cause. I only want to know the truth, and I know the official story is not it.